Back in February, I contacted Ertuğrul Sevsay – Vienna-based Turkish musicologist, composer, arranger and tango-lover – for an interview to be published on Live the Questions Now. For almost six months I have been working on this piece that provides an alternative viewpoint on Piazzolla and tango nuevo, tango’s global past and present, Sevsay’s upcoming “tango-anthology” and his Gran Orquesta Típica de Tango: Band-O-Neon. 

Live the Questions Now.

Vive las Preguntas Ahora.

H.E. What a turn of events... Kısmet... How would you describe your early years in Austria?

E.S. My first years in Vienna span from 1980 to 1985. As you may anticipate, I had good and bad times; a rollercoaster of experiences. It’s all part of reaching maturity. The most difficult part was discrimination. Being from Türkiye[i] was a disadvantage. One of the reasons why I moved to the US was exactly that. When I finished studying in Vienna, I wanted to change my “Lebensraum”. Having said that, there wasn’t a shortage of bitter experiences in Türkiye either. Jealousy was one of the key factors. I wasn’t wanted. I had a cardiology lecturer at Cerrahpaşa. He said to me, “why don’t you relocate to the US, you’ll have different experiences in a new place”. So, I packed my bags and got on a plane to America. In those early years in Vienna – simultaneously specialising in medicine and studying towards degrees in composition and conducting music – I was attending concerts and operas every night. It was an incredibly busy and exhausting period of my life. I wouldn’t recommend overworking and neglecting the body to anyone because you pay greatly, at your own expense. I understood that many years later.

H.E. So, was tango a diversion for you in those years? How did your interest in tango music develop? How did you come up with Band-O-Neon?

E.S. My interest in tango began in childhood. I can’t recall exactly how old I was. Turkish tangos were my first flame, I loved listening to them on the radio. Many years later, in high school I put together an orchestra, we played tangos and dance music. Later, at university my interest in music shifted towards classical. When I moved to the US, tango was not really part of my life, I just enjoyed listening to it. After returning to Vienna, in the early 1990s I continued working as visiting professor at the University of Miami. The academic holidays were at different times of the year which provided me with a golden opportunity. Before Christmas I would fly out to Miami and take a sabbatical from the university in Vienna and stay there until March. This way I was able to exchange those cold Viennese winters for the sun in Miami. Back in Vienna I had two Brazilian students; one of whom was from Rio and the other from Bahia. They said to me, “you go to Miami every year, why don’t you come to Brazil for once?” So I bought a tour package to Brazil. In fact, my first journey to Brazil coincided with Hurricane Andrew which turned Miami upside down on 24 August 1992. My flight was booked for that day. I was told that they hadn’t had a hurricane in Miami in quite some time and I was advised to fly out a day earlier... So I did.  In fact, ours was the last plane to take off from Miami before Hurricane Andrew tore down the place. I travelled across South America for the next two weeks. I had a Venezulean pianist friend whom I met at the School of Music in Vienna. She also hosted me. Argentina was also part of my tour package. I stayed in Buenos Aires for four nights and attended a different tango show every night. I was mesmerised by this new world that opened up to me. I promised myself that I would do whatever it took to learn the bandoneon. I started learning the instrument quite late. The following year I travelled to Argentina again. I bought a bandoneon. I spent two months in Buenos Aires and started taking bandoneon lessons. Thereafter, I spent two to three months in Argentina every year. Some time after that, in 1994-1995 I put together a small tango orchestra in Vienna which – in 1999 – became a fully-fledged Argentine tango orchestra.

H.E. How relevant do you think tango is in today’s world? Do you think it has a future? To what extent has it become international?

E.S. Tango surely is one of the most popular genres of music in today’s world, it is renowned internationally. However, what sets tango apart from others is that it is a culture. It is so much more than a single song or a piece of dance music. Tango is a lifestyle. It brings with itself many customs. It is a music that sympathises with and expresses the grievances and joys of people. It is an art form. That is why in 1955 when the military regime took over control in Argentina tango was banned. The broadcasting house was stormed, the records were smashed and the original masters were destroyed. They claimed that this music could not and should not represent the people of Argentina. Later, US involvement came to light. The US adopted a strategy of deceiving the military regime in Argentina in order to impose American pop music on its people. But, tango went underground and was practiced in secret. Sure, over time the generation interested in tango died down and hence there is a gap of 20-25 years. However, since then it has gained momentum and spread across the world once again. Naturally, there are major differences between Argentine, European and Turkish tangos and that is a separate matter. Nevertheless, tango is still the crowning glory.

H.E. 4 July 2022 will be marking the 30th death anniversary of Astor Piazzolla this year. To what extent would you say he re-invented Argentine tango?

E.S. I have mixed feelings about Piazzolla. I think of him highly as a bandoneonista, a musician and even as an arranger, but I don’t share the same view about Piazzolla as a composer. This is my personal view. Many artists use his name to benefit themselves. Just because Piazzolla is famous. Whether its Gidon Kremer or Yo-Yo Ma... Using his name, they transform his music into something unrecognisable, just to show off. These are people who can’t get enough of fame. Piazzolla’s compositions are stereotypical, except one or two pieces all his works are one and the same. The first part of his compositions consist of jazz harmonies accompanied by fast chords, the second part is usually slower, reminiscent of Tchaikovsky – though there is no comparison – a part that is slightly romantic and elegiac, followed by a repetition of the first part. All of his compositions are so similar that after some time it becomes really tedious. From Adiós Nonino to Las cuatro estaciones porteñas, they are all the same. I can’t remember whether it was in 1994 or 1995, but when I said this live on Argentinian radio there were dozens of calls to the station. Some concurred and were in awe of my comments whilst others were completely against it. Being able to express different opinions is a wonderful thing. However, it is a known fact that Piazzolla was not favoured in Argentina in the beginning. Then he left for France. His teachers there told him, “return to Argentina and make your own music”. This can be interpreted in two ways. To some, it means you cannot make it in classical music, go and play tango, you are already versed in it, go and progress. To others, it may mean that they were asking him to go back and save his country. Totally different interpretations.

H.E. In an 1989 interview Piazzolla gave to the BBC he said about the bandoneon, “It’s very diabolic. The person who is interested in learning this instrument must be a little out of his mind.” Do you agree?

E.S. It seems Piazzolla and I share the same sentiment about the bandoneon. It is a very complicated instrument. My bandoneon teacher Walter Ríos used to say, “The bandoneon takes you captive until you figure it out, but once you do, you take it captive”. That is so right. Despite its complexity, I still cannot compare it to a violin.  They are both very hard to master. There is no logic to the bandoneon, the keys are all mixed up, there isn’t a coherent system. But at least when you press a key there is sound, you don’t have to bother with intonations. So Piazzolla is right, but one shouldn’t say it’s the hardest instrument on earth.

H.E. What are your views on contemporary tango projects such as Gotan Project, La Chícana and Gidon Kremer’s Astor Quartet?

E.S. When you look at music history it can be seen that composers fall into two categories in every period. On one side there are conservative composers who try to perfect what came before them, and on the other, there are avantgarde composers who are always in pursuit of innovation. This has always been the case. For example, in the Romantic period Brahms produced exceedingly conservative and austere works that were equally phenomenal. In return, Schumann – another great composer of the Romantic period – was always in pursuit of innovation. There are many examples of this kind. Then, there are also those who want to become famous in a flash and draw attention to themselves. This is the malaise of our age. To me, the music made by Gotan Project is – in Cemal Reşit Rey’s expression – stillborn music. When I listened to their music I knew it wouldn’t be lasting because it is extremely superficial and has been made to entertain a certain segment of society. It is good to experiment but  I am not fond of doing something cheaply just for the sake of making a name for oneself. Examples of this can also be seen in contemporary classical music. Every genre has its own listener base. However, the number of listeners should not determine the quality of the music. That music cannot be taken seriously, in the end its bubble bursts. People that I mentioned earlier, such as Gidon Kremer and many others... People who can’t get enough of fame. There is nothing to improve in Astor Piazzolla’s music because all his works are composed of arpeggios. I could let it go once or twice but not when all the compositions are the same.

Some years ago, Piazzolla’s second wife [Laura Escalada] invited me to a concert. We had a mutual friend in Buenos Aires. We went to the concert together and were given great seats. I got so bored of listening to the same melody repeatedly for an hour and a half that I began to study the intricate decorations on the ceiling of the concert hall. Piazzolla’s son was also on stage I think. The music that was performed had – melodically or harmonically -  nothing to do with Piazzolla’s music other than the fact that there was an air of Piazzolla’s compositions in the beginning of some pieces.  To me, this is none other than trickery.

H.E. I would love to hear more about your new book project, if you would like to share.

E.S. My new book comprises two comprehensive chapters. The first chapter is based on the history of tango in Türkiye, biographies of composers, artists and singers, their opinions on tango and various other technical notes; and the second chapter envelops an introduction to approximately 400 Turkish tangos I collected from here and there and everywhere, the meaning of their lyrics and intros to musical themes will be printed as musical notes. My intention is to keep it more like an anthology. I chose this subject because tango is still disappearing art. One of the main features of this book is that it represents the founding of the Republic of Turkey. Tango is the first polyphonic example of Western music that was adopted by the people of Türkiye. There were other previous experimentations, sure. There are polyphonic compositions written by non-Muslims living in Istanbul, Izmir and Samsun. In fact, theatre shows and operas were put on at the Ottoman Palace during the sultanate of Abdulhamid. Numerous operettas from Italy visited Istanbul and put on performances. However, all these remained local. Polyphony entered Turkish homes with tango and thus it became a national treasure.

If you ask me why, I can elaborate as follows. Tango is a music of many components. Let me explain. It is said that it emerged in Argentina but it is not simply so. Just as there wouldn’t have been tango without Argentina – which is completely true – there also wouldn’t have been tango without Europe. For, when Argentina was founded – Argentina as we know it today has a history of about 150 years, before that the colonial period (Argentinians don’t really like to hear much about any of that, in fact that is why they are not very sympathetic to the Spanish and there is hardly any Spanish influence in Argentina except the fact that they speak Spanish with an Italian accent) – British, French, German and other European influences were more prominent. When it was founded they sent invitations to four corners of the world that pretty much said, we have founded a new state here, we have a small population but we have gold, silver, a very enjoyable climate and plenty of water as well as fertile land. Their invitation drew more attention than they anticipated and a great migration from across the world – from Europe to China to Arabia – to Argentina took place from mid to late 19th century. Thus, people brought with themselves their own traditions. What do you reckon happened next? German lieder and Neapolitan melodies came together with Cuban and African music and their rhythms, and all this formed something new in Argentina.

On the other hand, there are also certain unforeseen events. For example, the Arabs prevailed in Spain for nearly 800 years until the mid 15th century. With the defeat of Granada, the Arab rule on Iberian Peninsula in Spain came to an end. However, throughout those 800 years many Arab traditions as well as its music, art, food culture and lifestyle became part of Spanish culture. One of the Arabic elements that influenced Spanish music is the syncopated rhythm frequently heard in belly-dancing music. This was refined over several centuries and arrived in Cuba, and the Habanera rhythm came about. From Cuba, it travelled to South America and became one of the founding rhythms of tango.

If we return to Turkish culture... Turkish tangos in which certain oriental and dance rhythms play an important part, are fragrant with Mediterranean music. That is why it was so readily adopted by the people, because they could say, “it’s new but it’s ours”. It especially resonated with people who had turned their attention to Western culture. Not just in Istanbul but in other cities such as Samsun and Izmir. Can you imagine, there were tango-lovers clubs in Gaziantep and Diyarbakır. Tango took the whole country by storm. Think of a country founded in 1923, think of the state it was in. Literacy rate was 2%. Only three factories remained from the Ottoman State. The country was in such a derelict state. Only a decade after the founding of the Republic of Turkey (1923)[i], in 1933-1934 radio channels were organising tango and waltz composition competitions. This is truly unbelievable. I have those compositions as sheet music and I will be incorporating these in my book. The compositions were not even by professional artists, they were by outstanding amateur composers who wrote brilliant pieces and their calligraphies are immaculate as well. It seems they took an interest and somehow learnt music. It’s astounding. I think this example explains to a great extent the speed with which the country developed in its first 25 years as a republic. During this period, there were students who dedicated their tango compositions to university lecturers. There were people who used to compose tangos as a present instead of taking flowers and chocolates when they were joining their friends for dinner. That’s how popular tango was. But as I said before, and this is extremely important, tango was so widely accepted because “it was new but ours”. The earliest Turkish tango composers – many of whom were also Turkish classical music composers -  used the maqams of Turkish classical music when composing tangos. For example, Kadri Cerrahoğlu, Fehmi Ege and Kaptanzade Ali Rıza were among those who infused tango with flavours of Turkish classical music and thus, quickly gained popularity.

[i] N.B. I [H.E.] am intentionally referring to the original name of the country (the Republic of Turkey) at the time of its establishment as I think it is more suitable to do so. In June 2022, Turkey rebranded its internationally recognised name as Türkiye and the Republic of Türkiye. I will be using this new name throughout the rest of this blog post as it is currently the official name of the country. For reference please visit: Turkey rebrands as 'Türkiye,' changing name at the United Nations - CNN

H.E. Where should a person wanting to take a serious interest in tango start? May be with classics like Carlos Gardel?

E.S. I wouldn’t recommend any particular order of listening. In order to learn to swim you have to jump into the water. One who is curious will expose him/herself to tango wholly. Piazzolla today, Gardel tomorrow, it really doesn’t matter. 

H.E. Is tango for life? Can you imagine your life without tango?

E.S. Music is a personal taste.  Tango is an important part of my life but I don’t view it just as music. It is part of my lifestyle, my understanding of friendship, affection and comradery. In Europe and Türkiye tango is usually about love, affection or sadness, grief or matters of the heart. But in Argentina it’s not so... There is a tango that describes the sunrise, another one called Silencio which is based on the grief of a mother who lost her children to war and another one on horse races and another about a hurricane... That’s why tango is a genre of music and a culture that feeds into all aspects of human life. Tango-lovers are often people who abide by rules of common courtesy; respecting the elderly, standing up if a lady approaches your table... They adopt polite demeanours and speak eloquently. Old Istanbul was very much like that. I caught a glimpse of it as a child. I remember it vaguely, tango was on its way out. Yet, traditions don’t disappear from one day to the next, they remain in place for a while.