30/01/2025

Hande Eagle: Perhaps you’ve been asked this question before... Why did you decide to study Arabic at Wadham College? What was it about Arabic and Arab culture that enticed you to build your career on it?

Diana Darke: I decided to switch to Arabic from German and Philosophy during my first year of study at Oxford. German & Philosophy was a new joint Honours degree course, but I quickly discovered that neither the Philosophy (Hume, Locke and John Stuart Mill) nor the German literature excited me (too much of it already in the family, with my father a Professor of German, my mother a German national, my brother studying German and French ahead of me at Cambridge). So I took a leap of faith and jumped off the family conveyor belt. I was drawn to Arabic by the lure of studying the birthplace of civilisation in the river valleys of the Nile, the Tigris and the Euphrates, a fascination of mine since childhood. I actually wanted to combine Arabic with Turkish but I wasn’t allowed to do so. I was told it would be too much to take on two new languages from scratch, especially as I’d already missed the first year. I was a year behind and would have had to catch up with the second-year students on my own over the summer. Sadly, learning Turkish as well as Arabic was a stretch too far. Back in 1974-77, all language subjects were three-year courses in those days, with no year abroad.

H.E: Since then have you had the chance to learn Turkish?

D.D: I tried to teach myself but it's a very difficult language, more difficult than Arabic in my view, so although I have a reasonable vocabulary (helped by my Arabic), I don't have the proper grammar, so I struggle to make sentences of more than three or four words! 

H.E: In the last decade you’ve written five non-fiction titles focusing on the Middle East, all but one (The Ottomans: A Cultural Legacy, 2022) mostly focusing on Syria, and besides buying a house in Damascus, living and travelling extensively across the region and writing several Bradt guides, you even completed an Master's in Islamic Art and Architecture at SOAS while conducting research for My House in Damascus. Has your in-depth knowledge and understanding of the region changed your opinion on how the unyielding, devastating human suffering in the Middle East may actually be brought to an end?

D.D: The last five books were not exclusively focussed on Syria – Stealing from the Saracens and Islamesque focus on the broader Middle Eastern Mediterranean and then explore the architectural connections to Europe. The motivation for writing my books is precisely because I’m trying to show people how closely interwoven European Christendom and the Islamic world were, in the hope that they can focus on the positive aspects of our shared cultural heritage and how much we can learn from each other – not to see each other as enemies or in conflict, in other words. Books like My House in Damascus seek to give a human face to the suffering in Syria during the civil war in the hope that westerners can have some empathy with the region and its historic suffering, often at the hands of western colonial powers. In their indirect way, therefore, I hope the books may have an influence on policy makers in the West, to help them see the region in a more positive light. 

H.E: Have you had any direct feedback on your titles from Western policymakers? Has their acknowledgement of the major issues in your books led to any tangible change? 

D.D: Not yet, but I live in hope. These things take time, when you are challenging the long-held orthodox position, there is always pushback and disagreement. I do, however, know that my work has changed the views of lots of individuals, who write to me frequently to tell me that they now see things through different eyes. I have also been told that the Architecture syllabus in one or two universities has been changed to acknowledge the Islamic influence by academics who have read my work. 

H.E: This might be a bit of a demanding question but I wonder if you'd be able to tell me how many cathedrals, churches, chapels, mosques, masjids, synagogues, temples and other religious buildings you have visited to-date? And other than the zigzag (the meaning of which became a subject of passionate research for you after buying your courtyard house in Damascus; and which was initially titled as “The Secret History of Zigzags” in your publishing contract for this new book) and the pearl border, which other decorative element of Islamic architecture conquered your heart the most?  

D.D: I must have visited hundreds and hundreds of cathedrals, churches, chapels, monasteries, abbeys, mosques, masjids, synagogues, temples and other religious buildings across Europe and the Middle East over the course of my lifetime. My favourite aspect of Islamic architecture is its overall aesthetic. I love its use of slender columns, its delicate ornamentation, the elegance of its pointed arches and rows of arcades. I also love its use of the eight-pointed star, especially when it is inset in a contrasting colour, as we then start to see in the Romanesque cathedrals across France, Italy and Spain. 

H.E: When I was reading Islamesque, I wished there were more images to accompany your highly descriptive writing. Was it difficult to obtain image copyrights for certain buildings or artefacts simply because you were writing a book that goes against the grain?

D.D: We were limited to 150 images for cost reasons, in order to keep the price down to an affordable level. There were lots of images I would have loved to use – in fact I flooded the publishers with images – over 350. Often the choice was made for us by problems getting permissions – even when an image is on Wikipedia, if it’s a photo of an object in a museum for example, you still need to get permission and that can take too much time. For example, there was one image of the Sabean ibex frieze that is on Wikipedia, but because the original frieze is held in The Louvre in Paris, you need permission to use it in a book, and they charge a lot. For that reason, to keep the book’s price down, we went for images that were free to use – so either my own or free ones from Wikipedia.

H.E:  In relation to the widespread use of Arabic numerals in 13th century Italy, you wrote, “There was general resistance to the adoption of something so new and so different among the conservative-minded population at large across Europe” (Islamesque, p.103). It seems to me that the phrase, “history repeats itself” which is integral to historic recurrence (which you also hint at throughout your books especially whilst drawing parallels between the ironically negative representations of Muslims and Islam in the West from the past to the present) rings true. Have you received strong negative opinions on these recently published books from individuals affiliated with right-wing populist movements or others?

D.D: Given the content of the books, I was prepared for a lot more pushback than I have in fact received. I’ve had a few ultra-nationalist right-wing trolls on Twitter/X and but on the whole, most people have been receptive to my theories and the evidence I present in the books, even in the world of architecture, where I’ve been invited to speak at one or two architectural events. Most open-minded people have been grateful that I’ve pointed these connections out to them. 

H.E: One of the most intriguing findings of your research for me was the photo of the cursive masons’ marks from the tenth-century extension to Córdoba Mezquita (p.73). I wonder if you could tell me whether they had actually translated the names written in Arabic on-site for non-Arabic speaking visitors. It would have been poignant to include the names of these long-forgotten craftsmen and others peppered throughout the book as a list with some biographical detail (any records allowing, I am aware this would be a huge undertaking) since you dedicated the book to them. Did you consider this while working on the book?

D.D: There is no translation of the masons’ marks on-site in the Córdoba Mezquita. It’s a very low-key display, tucked away on the back wall, and I was very surprised to come across it when I first visited the mezquita in 2019. When I took the photo, I had no idea I would soon be writing books about Islamic architecture, and had no idea how crucial the photo would become to Islamesque and its arguments.

H.E: "No one in the world comes anywhere near being superior to a craftsman/ No achievement is superior to the gain attained by the hand / The craftsman’s head rises high in the sky/ Sultans need craftsmen,” is a quote from Nasir Khusraw (Islamesque, p. 49). Be it in architecture or engineering, humankind has gone through immense technological advancements, we have machinery and equipment which neither the Fatimids nor the Iranians had back in the 11th century, yet craftsmanship is one aspect of modern construction that has died out. You write on page 124, “Ibn Khaldun tells us that the Hammadid city of Béjaïa on the coast of modern Algeria, and its great Palace of the Pearl, were built in a single year, from 1067 to 1068.” In the next page you write about how it also took a year to build Palermo Cathedral. Yet, as you would agree since the late 19th century craft has eventually come to be viewed as inferior to art. We live in a present that is more and more focused on a minimalist and fast-paced future (with city-planning and ambitious building and restoration projects taking no less than five years, quoting from Islamesque, p.357 “Notre-Dame de Paris’s super-fast five-year restoration”) rather than experiences/traditions and artefacts/relics of the past. How do you think this will impact humanity in the foreseeable future?

D.D: This is another reason I wanted to write the book – to highlight the amazing skill which these craftsmen had, a skill that way exceeds anything that exists today apart from possibly in a few cities like Damascus and Cairo. I feel this is a huge loss to our society and to its humanity, as it disconnects us from our past and the beauty of our culture. Over the course of my travels across the Middle East, I have always tried to buy as many beautiful objects as I can afford – things like tiles, pottery, carved wood, and also Persian and Turkish carpets. I have these in my house and they give me real pleasure on a daily basis, the tactile nature of them, the sheer beauty of the craftsmanship they represent – they are truly unique, the complete opposite of modern, mass-produced objects which in my view have no soul.

H.E: Having read your books as well as your articles in various publications, I consider you as a meticulous and dedicated researcher and writer in search of the truth. In Turkish there’s a proverb “doğru söyleyeni dokuz köyden kovarlar” which literally translates into English as “The one who tells the truth is driven out of nine villages.” Do you ever feel like an outlier? Do you think the term you coined as Islamesque to refer to the actual origins of “Romanesque” art, craft and architecture will come to be used in future publications by other researchers and writers? Do you think that the readership of your books will ensure the longevity of your works?

D.D: I certainly felt like a pioneer in writing Islamesque. I am sticking my neck out, and when I first coined the word, yes, I really did hope, and still do, that in future it will gain traction as a widely used word, in direct challenge to the concept of Romanesque. These things take time, especially when you are challenging the establishment and taking on the very conservative European art history world, but I honestly believe it needs to be done, and in my opinion, Islamesque is a far more accurate term than Romanesque.

H.E: On 28th December 2024, you published a piece on your blog titled Syria and Turkey Commentary, stating: “Trump has the power to transform the new Syria. He could, in an act of faith and leadership similar to that which enabled Notre-Dame to be rebuilt in five years, have the vision to do a deal with Turkey’s President Erdoğan on the Kurdish PKK elements within the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces that also allowed the 2000 US troops to go home to America, and to then lift the US Sanctions that were imposed against the old Syria in recognition that the new Syria deserves a chance to rebuild itself from the inside.” Do you think that Trump has been democratically elected because he is a generous and enlightened leader with a great sense of duty towards people who live on the opposite side of the world and whom he considers as pests? He keeps referring to the racehorse theory, he is outspokenly racist. Do you think Trump cares at all about peace in the Middle East be it Syria or Palestine? Don’t you think that the age-old political rhetoric of “divide ed impera” is still on the agenda of Western leaders? 

D.D: Of course Trump is no philanthropist, but as an optimist, I think it is possible, for the sake of his legacy, and the lure of a possible Nobel Peace Prize, that he could surprise us all. He wants to end wars in the Middle East and be the person responsible for bringing Israel and Saudi Arabia together. It’s not that he cares about the people in the Middle East but he does care about how he will go down in history. That vanity may spur him to achieve what no other American president or leader has been able to achieve.

H.E: Recent news articles and video footage about Trump's ideas about what should be done with the Gaza Strip, his intention is to evacuate the area and turn it into a centre of investment for Americans and Israelis. Perhaps to create a "holiday resort" with a business district. There's resistance from Jordan and Egypt against taking in displaced Palestinians. But who knows how long that will hold. In light of this, do you think that he cares about how he will go down in history? For people who voted for him, he may turn out to be a hero who enlarged their state's territory and added value through acquiring a lot of natural resources such as oil and gas. 

D.D: No one knows what Trump will do from one day to the next, but his support for Israel seems to be rock solid, and he honestly seems to believe that Israel has a God-given right to the biblical lands, so that includes the West Bank too, what Israel calls Judea and Samaria. It's such an injustice to the indigenous Palestinian population, as well as being against international law. That said, I won't let myself believe that he will succeed in his declared mission. Saudi Arabia and the other Arab countries need to show their muscle and stand up for their fellow Arabs, otherwise Israel and its expansionist policies will continue to destabilise the whole Middle East. 

H.E: Now that political transformation is in place, will you be returning to Syria for longer stretches of time, perhaps to write another book?

D.D: I'll be travelling to Damascus in March and staying at my house. My next book will be on Damascus, a book I’ve been thinking about and collecting material for since 2017. Now that Syria is on a new trajectory, the timing is finally right. 

H.E: Thank you, Diana. It's been a pleasure corresponding with you.